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	<title>Comments on: Warning: This dialog is deadly, fatal, and could kill you (and then you would die and be dead)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142</link>
	<description>A blog about Ubuntu, Wine, and the occasional other interest</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 04:49:30 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-6831</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-6831</guid>
		<description>You should also remove the word Restart from the cancel button.  Say I&#039;m an average user and I&#039;m skimming, barely reading, the warning.  Restart, restart, restart - Ok, I get it restart.  So I read the buttons from left to right and the first word I see is Restart, so I click it.  And I don&#039;t restart.  So now I&#039;m confused.  

The yes/no ok/cancel order is already reversed from what most people are used to.  People coming from a windows world are used to the first button being the &quot;do it&quot; button and the second being the &quot;don&#039;t do it&quot; button.  So they naturally tend to the get it wrong.  And when they see the word Restart, they click.

The choices should be something like:

Cancel Restart  &#124;  Restart Now

So the first word the person sees is Cancel.  Yes, I know not everyone reads ltr.  Yes, the text is clear.  But people are fallible and they tend to click the first likely candidate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should also remove the word Restart from the cancel button.  Say I&#8217;m an average user and I&#8217;m skimming, barely reading, the warning.  Restart, restart, restart &#8211; Ok, I get it restart.  So I read the buttons from left to right and the first word I see is Restart, so I click it.  And I don&#8217;t restart.  So now I&#8217;m confused.  </p>
<p>The yes/no ok/cancel order is already reversed from what most people are used to.  People coming from a windows world are used to the first button being the &#8220;do it&#8221; button and the second being the &#8220;don&#8217;t do it&#8221; button.  So they naturally tend to the get it wrong.  And when they see the word Restart, they click.</p>
<p>The choices should be something like:</p>
<p>Cancel Restart  |  Restart Now</p>
<p>So the first word the person sees is Cancel.  Yes, I know not everyone reads ltr.  Yes, the text is clear.  But people are fallible and they tend to click the first likely candidate.</p>
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		<title>By: bobyjoe</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1609</link>
		<dc:creator>bobyjoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1609</guid>
		<description>+1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan McCall</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1608</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan McCall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1608</guid>
		<description>&quot;3) I dont read the headers within window title bars, and so a large header within the window itself is useful.&quot;

We can&#039;t trust them to be there, either. We have to assume they are not. (They shouldn&#039;t be, anyway; window titles are silly).

In fact, I have a strong suspicion that there is such a detail in the HIG...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;3) I dont read the headers within window title bars, and so a large header within the window itself is useful.&#8221;</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t trust them to be there, either. We have to assume they are not. (They shouldn&#8217;t be, anyway; window titles are silly).</p>
<p>In fact, I have a strong suspicion that there is such a detail in the HIG&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: rothashigan</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1600</link>
		<dc:creator>rothashigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1600</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll vote for &quot;Save Now or things will breaks&quot; version... LOL!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll vote for &#8220;Save Now or things will breaks&#8221; version&#8230; LOL!</p>
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		<title>By: YokoZar</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1595</link>
		<dc:creator>YokoZar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1595</guid>
		<description>@Anon: The new version does give a reason: to finish the update.  Now, it doesn&#039;t explain the specifics of why a restart is needed here (and not, say, on other updates), but the original dialog didn&#039;t either. Such an explanation is rather technical and would be lost on most of our users anyway.

And, yes, it is entirely possible to hide the window and keep working - that&#039;s what the Restart Later button is for.  With a more readable dialog text the user will be better able to understand what that means: an incomplete update.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anon: The new version does give a reason: to finish the update.  Now, it doesn&#8217;t explain the specifics of why a restart is needed here (and not, say, on other updates), but the original dialog didn&#8217;t either. Such an explanation is rather technical and would be lost on most of our users anyway.</p>
<p>And, yes, it is entirely possible to hide the window and keep working &#8211; that&#8217;s what the Restart Later button is for.  With a more readable dialog text the user will be better able to understand what that means: an incomplete update.</p>
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		<title>By: P.</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1592</link>
		<dc:creator>P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1592</guid>
		<description>I like your idea to make these silly messages shorter. I mean, that is what we keep reading _every day_.
KISS!
You still have the word &quot;restart&quot; 4 times in there, however there is not much to do about that I think.
Title is important. Description is important. Action buttons should describe _actions_ just like they do now. Let me NOT read the whole stuff, just the buttons to be able to go with my life.

Good post and good plan! Keep going!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your idea to make these silly messages shorter. I mean, that is what we keep reading _every day_.<br />
KISS!<br />
You still have the word &#8220;restart&#8221; 4 times in there, however there is not much to do about that I think.<br />
Title is important. Description is important. Action buttons should describe _actions_ just like they do now. Let me NOT read the whole stuff, just the buttons to be able to go with my life.</p>
<p>Good post and good plan! Keep going!</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1584</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1584</guid>
		<description>To be honest, I liked the original, mainly for several reasons.

1) I would be pretty pissed that I was being told to restart without giving a reason why.
2) A restart isn&#039;t actually &quot;required&quot;. In fact, it is entirely possible to hide that window, and continue with what you were doing. I feel the original nicely explains the situations under which it is important to restart.
3) I dont read the headers within window title bars, and so a large header within the window itself is useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, I liked the original, mainly for several reasons.</p>
<p>1) I would be pretty pissed that I was being told to restart without giving a reason why.<br />
2) A restart isn&#8217;t actually &#8220;required&#8221;. In fact, it is entirely possible to hide that window, and continue with what you were doing. I feel the original nicely explains the situations under which it is important to restart.<br />
3) I dont read the headers within window title bars, and so a large header within the window itself is useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Oli</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1580</link>
		<dc:creator>Oli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1580</guid>
		<description>@Aigars:
&gt; all services that I know of are perfectly capable of restarting without a reboot

Capable doesn&#039;t mean all services/applications *are* restarted. Firefox updates get a separate &quot;You need to restart firefox...&quot; dialogue. Other applications (to my knowledge) either trigger a full restart-required flag or just don&#039;t tell the user.

Restarting a service or application can destructive so there needs to be user-interaction/permission.

Perhaps the restart app could be a little more intelligent and tell the user which applications need to be restarted and actually do the restarting for them (once they&#039;ve saved data).

And also allow just GDM to restart for X/graphics-driver updates.

There&#039;s a lot more to the restart-required process than the dialogue that needs re-engineering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Aigars:<br />
&gt; all services that I know of are perfectly capable of restarting without a reboot</p>
<p>Capable doesn&#8217;t mean all services/applications *are* restarted. Firefox updates get a separate &#8220;You need to restart firefox&#8230;&#8221; dialogue. Other applications (to my knowledge) either trigger a full restart-required flag or just don&#8217;t tell the user.</p>
<p>Restarting a service or application can destructive so there needs to be user-interaction/permission.</p>
<p>Perhaps the restart app could be a little more intelligent and tell the user which applications need to be restarted and actually do the restarting for them (once they&#8217;ve saved data).</p>
<p>And also allow just GDM to restart for X/graphics-driver updates.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot more to the restart-required process than the dialogue that needs re-engineering.</p>
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		<title>By: YokoZar</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1572</link>
		<dc:creator>YokoZar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1572</guid>
		<description>I talked to our own Mathew Paul Thomas shortly after making this blog post.  This bug is indeed a papercut: https://bugs.launchpad.net/update-notifier/+bug/397324

Attached to the bug you can see my bzr branch that I managed to cajole Michael Vogt (a personal friend of mine) into agreeing to upload about an hour before feature freeze.

The final version of the dialog is actually a mix between MPT&#039;s suggestion and mine: &quot;The computer needs to restart to finish installing updates. Please save your work before continuing.&quot;

@I_Artist and @ethana2: You&#039;re right that all programs should prompt you to save before allowing themselves to be closed at reboot, however when we say &quot;save your work&quot; we also mean &quot;make sure you&#039;re done&quot;, and I think the new version gets that message across.  It is, of course, something that will end up getting a lot of user testing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I talked to our own Mathew Paul Thomas shortly after making this blog post.  This bug is indeed a papercut: <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/update-notifier/+bug/397324" rel="nofollow">https://bugs.launchpad.net/update-notifier/+bug/397324</a></p>
<p>Attached to the bug you can see my bzr branch that I managed to cajole Michael Vogt (a personal friend of mine) into agreeing to upload about an hour before feature freeze.</p>
<p>The final version of the dialog is actually a mix between MPT&#8217;s suggestion and mine: &#8220;The computer needs to restart to finish installing updates. Please save your work before continuing.&#8221;</p>
<p>@I_Artist and @ethana2: You&#8217;re right that all programs should prompt you to save before allowing themselves to be closed at reboot, however when we say &#8220;save your work&#8221; we also mean &#8220;make sure you&#8217;re done&#8221;, and I think the new version gets that message across.  It is, of course, something that will end up getting a lot of user testing.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Dan</title>
		<link>http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/142/comment-page-1#comment-1571</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yokozar.org/blog/?p=142#comment-1571</guid>
		<description>Why not do it the Mac way? I got a Mac not to looking ago and am continual impressed by the way the OS handles things.. Fanboism aside. ;) 

Run the update manager, install everything that can be installed without a restart, then alert the user the system needs to be restarted to apply further upgrades, kill nautilus so the user cannot use the computer while the system critical upgrading is being done, then restart the computer. 

It looks a lot longer than it actually is.. Anyone who&#039;s installed . patches on OS X can testify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not do it the Mac way? I got a Mac not to looking ago and am continual impressed by the way the OS handles things.. Fanboism aside. <img src='http://yokozar.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Run the update manager, install everything that can be installed without a restart, then alert the user the system needs to be restarted to apply further upgrades, kill nautilus so the user cannot use the computer while the system critical upgrading is being done, then restart the computer. </p>
<p>It looks a lot longer than it actually is.. Anyone who&#8217;s installed . patches on OS X can testify.</p>
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